as attribute for cast name of 'Beth' no longer accepted

It should be because the alternate name has been hidden by the person via IMDb Pro, as mentioned in

• Manage the display of your alternate name(s)

However, in order for IMDb to hide the name in the 'as' attribute it must be possible to add the attribute, so I think there is something wrong with IMDb's implementation.

Hi, @Peter_pbn​.

I suspect those (as...) attributes were entered before this hapless policy came into force.

Current implementation only prevents the addition of new "hidden" akas.

@ljdoncel​ 

Or just before the subscriber chose to hide the name.

@ljdoncel​ 

But what I meant is that if IMDb wants to display "as a different name" next to the credits where this person was credited as "Beth", then it should still be possible to add  "as Beth".

Yes, Peter, you are correct.

The policy of displaying NAKA (even though it is public information) may be more or less debatable, but it should always be possible to send and store all the correct data, first of all because this is the primary purpose of a database that aspires to be comprehensive, and also because it may happen that someone changes their mind and decides to have their nickname displayed from then on.

@ron3​ I fully agree the (as a different name) is not clear, especially in some particular cases: https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/another-green-bottle-fell-from-the-wall/65a9928cd7ffb5509c66304c?commentId=65aab0086492572011b5ec89&replyId=65ad070fb2f5be641b4c7740

@Michelle​ It was my understanding that the main reason IMDb allows people to suppress alternative names is for privacy reasons. 

However, that clearly ought not apply to a situation such as this, where the name being suppressed consists of the given name from the person's official full name. 

If "Jane Smith" tells you that she needs to suppress the alternative name "Jane" or "Smith" or even a variation with a middle initial like "Jane L. Smith", that appears to be, at best, completely missing the point of having the name suppression option. Doing so tends to discredit the name suppression policy altogether.

Hi all,

Please see the latest comment on this thread regarding this issue and our policy on it.

Cheers!

Your policy reply addresses the concerns about displaying information, but DOES NOT address the fact that IMDb no longer allows the submission of complete and accurate information.  We (the contributors) should be allowed to submit and edit accurate data, regardless of how it eventually gets displayed.

Please address these concerns.  Thank you.

@ron3​ We would be interested in your solution to the problem in that case; probably best provided on the other thread and in the context of ensuring equal opportunity is afforded to every person and without the risk of misrepresentation or discrimination. We believe the solution we implemented is the only practical one which meets these needs as well as the legal requirements, but do let us know if we missed something obvious.

A reminder that outside of this being the right thing to do in the spirit of the above goals, IMDb is also required to conform to both privacy and equality laws across multiple locations. We must offer this service to anyone who requests it as otherwise that itself could be viewed as discrimination. 

Hope this helps. 

I am unable to offer a solution because I don't fully understand the legal requirements.  (I am not a lawyer)

How would the IMDb like contributors to navigate this issue?  It appears to me that since we cannot submit accurate and complete information, we only have a couple of alternatives.

a) don't submit the data that cannot be submitted accurately (leaving a gap in the data)

b) submit the data in an inaccurate or incomplete way

c) something I haven't considered?

In the example presented in the first post of this thread, I think what I would do going forward is leave Beth out of the cast list completely (option 'a').  I would not want to adversely affect my contributor reputation by submitting inaccurate data.

Bottom line, I would like the IMDb to document what the contributors should do when we run into these cases.

Thank you.

@Col_Needham​ Could you please post a screenshot or screenshots (generically, not for a specific person) showing what is displayed to people as they go through the process to suppress their alternative name(s)? I see the instructions at https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/names-biographical-data/manage-the-display-of-your-alternate-name-s/GHX5ZDWNL7D98C3Q#, but not being a person listed in the database, I can't see what the process actually looks like.

I've suggested before that some of the people who have suppressed their alternative names misunderstood what this was all about. We might want to suggest additional, or better, explanations to be included in the process. 

@ron3 Thanks ... ​

How would the IMDb like contributors to navigate this issue?

Your answer is in the error message in the contribution interface, where in this case it states:

• The as attribute "as Beth" is not eligible for submission.

The solution is either to not include the attribute or to label it as follows:

We will get this clarified in the appropriate contribution guide. 

Hope this helps. 

@gromit82​

Could you please post a screenshot or screenshots (generically, not for a specific person) showing what is displayed to people as they go through the process to suppress their alternative name(s)?

Of course, I have a "thanks" credit which is billed "(as Col Needham and IMDb)" so after following through the steps on https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/names-biographical-data/manage-the-display-of-your-alternate-name-s/GHX5ZDWNL7D98C3Q  at step #5, I see:

For someone with multiple "(as ...)" credits they will see one "Displayed" option per alternate name.  It is already clear in the help text, but we will ask about adding a link back to the same help on this settings page.  

Hope this helps. 

@Col_Needham​ 

Put it in a guide, but it could also just say so in the error message. Or perhaps the blocked attribute could automatically be changed to "as a different name".

@Col_Needham​ That's my point -- on the screenshot you provided, there is no explanation of what the "not displayed" option implies. 

If someone selects "not displayed", they ought to receive a warning along the following lines:

By selecting "not displayed", you are indicating that the alternate name Col Needham and IMDb should not be searchable in the database at all, and your credit for this title should be displayed with the attribute (as a different name) instead of (as Col Needham and IMDb).

This option is intended primarily for privacy reasons and would not normally be used to suppress minor name variations such as nicknames, included or excluded middle initials, or partial names. 

Please make sure that you understand the meaning of the "not displayed" option before proceeding.

[  ] Warning understood, go ahead anyway.

***

On a separate note, I would have expected that the "thanks" credit to Col under the name "Col Needham and IMDb" would not be considered an alternate name for Col, but rather two thanks credits, one individual thanks credit to Col Needham and one "other company" thanks credit to IMDb (co0047972).

@Col_Needham​ Thanks for stating that there are legal/compliance reasons why this policy was put in place. However, AFAIK, this is the first time that IMDb says that it is obligated to have this policy. There was a post in December 2022 stating a whole different reason: https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/imdbprocom/imdbpro-introduces-additional-control-options-for-professionals/6398881090844c35240ee041 

I really don't understand why the above announcement was not made on this board (my question in the OP about this went unanswered by the way) as it has a very big impact on contributors (as is evidenced by the multiple numbers of threads about this issue). And I also don't understand why IMDb hasn't been honest about this. Why did you create a Contributors Charter if you don't (fully) inform your contributors?

To me, it now kinda seems that you gave the reason one month ago (instead of in December 2022) because contributors kept pointing out how silly and undesired this policy change is. I really don't understand why IMDb couldn't have been honest about this from the start.

Side-note: When it comes to all this talk about equality, inclusiveness, proper representation and diversity, there are dozens of so-called "exotic" languages that have been waiting years to be added to the database and there seems to be no hope they will be added anytime soon: https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/issues-adding-new-languages/65f7387674d83c4497fc93f2

And then there is of course the issues of people who work on dubbed versions of (animated) titles. These people have no place on a title's page, despite their dubbed versions being seen by millions of movie lovers around the globe (and streaming services now also adding these credits to lots of episodes, making it even easier than before to find out who voiced what character). On the ol' Contributors Board I asked about this as early as 2003 and while IMDb never said they didn't want to list these "foreign" talents, they still can't be seen on a title's page and there is no reason to assume this will happen anytime soon.

I do wonder (I haven't checked it out to be honest) how many of the organizations (all for the people in the business it seems, none for the customers of all these titles) mentioned in the press release that accompanied the December 2022 post (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/IMDb/pr/pdf/IMDbPressRelease_121322IMDbUpdates.pdf) are from outside the USA.....

@gromit82​ Jane would be able to submit corrections to restore the "(as Jane L. Smith)" attributes at the point they reset the display setting, or at any time later (as would anyone else).   

You might be missing a subtlety here, for privacy and compliance reasons, we can no longer store which credits have which "(as ...)" names once a customer has chosen to hide the alternate name(s) -- hence the simple "(as a different name)" flag.  It is similar to complying with advertising privacy laws ... when a customer requests not to track them, the advertising system deletes all of the tracking info beyond "do not track this account" -- there's no keeping it around in a secret stash just in case they change their mind later :-)

Hope this helps. 

@Col_Needham​ 

But you do store the alternate names themselves. 

I too assumed that you kept the existing data about which credits had specific "as" attributes. This is perhaps because the announcement text only mentions changes to "display".

@ron3​ "It would seem that if the "as a different name" attribute appears anywhere in the cast list, that the cast cannot be verified."

I agree. For such cast lists, it would simply be a lie to state that "the cast listing is correct as it appears on screen to the best of my knowledge." Therefore, you can't IMHO in good conscience click the "warning understood" button.

(also, you can't claim that all the necessary "as" attributes have been added. The fact that, apparently, there are privacy and compliance reasons IMDb is by law not allowed to add them, doesn't mean that they shouldn't be there)