A

5 Messages

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166 Points

Thursday, November 14th, 2024 6:42 PM

Solved

Fake credits alert!

So I just stumbled onto this page and it raised a TON of red flags for me:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0192543/

For context, I've been working with music videos since 1998 and have extensive knowledge on the topic. But I'd never heard this name before. And while I'm sure I don't know every DP who ever worked in the 80s, the credits I see listed on his page make me extremely dubious because I do have DP credits for many of these and they do NOT match. My sources, I should add, are solid.

So, to give you a few examples:

- The Police "Every breath you take"
==> Daniel Pearl DP'ed this one *alone* and even won the 1984 Video Music Award for "best cinematography". My first source for this was MTV's website, back in the 90s, but that page sadly doesn't seem to have been archived by the Wayback Machine. The information was however confirmed by Daniel Pearl himself and numerous other sources online. In fact, here's a little test you could do... Search for the video title and artist name along with Daniel Pearl's name, then do the same search and replace Pearl's name with Cupcupin's. Compare. I think you'll see my point. In fact, here are the links for those two searches so you only have to click:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22every+breath+you+take%22+%22the+police%22+%22daniel+pearl%22

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22every+breath+you+take%22+%22the+police%22+%22edmund+cupcupin%22

- Duran Duran "New Moon on Monday"
==> There is an 'alternate movie' cut of this video (the content is the same, just with more footage) that includes extensive credits at the end. And guess what? Nic Knowland is the sole DP credited. No mention at all of anyone named Cupcupin! I just double checked to make sure. Feel free to check it out as well, here's the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzkp2blk5D0

Credits start at the 16:39 mark. DP is credited (as 'lighting cameraman') at the 16:55 mark.

- Howard Jones "Things can only get better"
==> This is another Nic Knowland job. Source for this one is director Nigel Dick's own website (I'd wager he knows who he worked with!) It's the last entry on this page:

https://www.nigeldick.com/films/productions-1985/

That's all I checked so far, don't have time to do more right now, but I'll be looking into this guy more closely in the near future. I mean, even the guy's name sounds fake--which I grant you doesn't mean anything, but added to all the inconsistencies it's all raising tons of red flags for me. I'll reach out to Daniel Pearl and Paul Flattery (who would both have worked with him according to these credits) and ask if they've ever heard of him.

A few people have tried to trick me before into adding fake credits into my website, and I suspect this is what happened here.

I suggest you do some research on your end as well, try to double check with some of the people he claims to have worked with. But keep in mind some of those credits might be real. Typically people like this have done some work but try to make it look like they either did more than they have or did more prestigious stuff... I mean look at all the classic videos he's listed! It's insane. I guarantee you at least half of these are fake.

Accepted Solution

Employee

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3.9K Messages

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42.1K Points

26 days ago

Hi everyone- Apologies for the delay response! The issue regarding these fake credits related to this name page of Edmund Cupcupin is now resolved. Any incorrect credit which for the most part has been for these music video credits and others which we were unable to verify have been removed. Futher actions have been taken to prevent incorrect credits being added without the respective supporting evidence and on the contributors responsible. The changes are still in-progress but will be updated on the site shortly. Thanks again to all of you for the reports, we appreciate it! Cheers!

(edited)

5 Messages

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166 Points

I'm disappointed it took so long to resolve (7 months!), but I'm glad you finally took care of it. Thank you for that.

7 Messages

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134 Points

Wow! Thanks for clearing that up! I seriously thought I was going round the bend for a minute there! 😂 I'd be interested to know how he was able to list himself as DP on so many top projects without any kind of proof...🤔

5 Messages

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166 Points

8 months ago

So I reached out to three industry professionals I know who have been in the business since at least the 1980s. They've worked on some of the bigger videos of the era, many of which are listed on this guy's page. Namely director Nigel Dick, producer Paul Flattery, and cinematographer Daniel Pearl.

I haven't heard back from the latter two yet, but this was Nigel's response:

"No idea who this guy is. He has at least 4 videos that I directed on his list by Cleine, Oasis, GnR, Howard Jones that he claims to have shot...and he didn't!

If you put his name in Google Images there are a lot of pix of young asian men. I have no idea what that means.

It sounds like someone sitting at home with nothing better to do than put b/s up on the web."

In another message, he added (and it's very true) : "In simple terms if he shot all the videos that are listed he'd be one of the most successful (and well known) DP's of modern times."

And yet nobody's ever heard of him!

Nigel has been talking to folks who have worked on these videos so you'll probably be getting more messages about this soon.

5 Messages

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166 Points

Just heard back from Paul Flattery, and this is what he said (the two videos he mentions in the beginning are Michael Jackson's "She's out of my life" and "Rock with you"):

"I don't recall that name at all, but those two videos were a long long time ago and we shot them on video so there was a "DP" as such, there was a Lighting Director and Video Controller who helped us. Again because it was video, we could see the exact pictures we were getting (in thgise days there was no video-assist for film and even then, it wasn't of a good quality (B&W too) so you couldn't tell how it was really going to look. I see he is credited with some of our other shoots - Rod Stewart, The BeeGees Leo Sayer, Gino Vanelli, Toto...It lists Zeyes without as Face (Billy Idol) which was Tony Mitchell as DP and I did Michael Bolton's Time Love and Tenderness (we did 3 videos at same time) and Jeff Zimmerman was the DP. He wasn't the DP and Richard Marx's Right Here waiting either...So sopmething's not right...If you look at his listing there are disclaimers at the top."

The disclaimers in question by the way were dropped by Nigel Dick after I brought this to his attention.

Employee

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3.1K Messages

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31.5K Points

Hello asg,

Thank you for reporting this issue. I've forwarded this information to the appropriate team for further investigation (Ref Ticket #V1581821430). I'll reply once we receive further information. Thank you for your patience.

5 Messages

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120 Points

I am familiar with the Philippine film industry and can confirm that Edmund Cupcupin is a real person who has worked as a cinematographer in numerous feature films, which can be easily verified from the credits of these films. With music videos, the situation is of course very difficult, as there are usually no credits. In some of the music videos where he is listed on IMDb as a cinematographer, other Filipinos are also credited, including prominent people like the venerable film editor Edgardo Vinarao. Still, the sheer number of Western music videos he was allegedly involved in is striking. I could imagine - and this is my personal theory, for which I have no concrete evidence - that these are not the official music videos, but the karaoke versions popular in Asia.

5 Messages

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166 Points

I suspected Edmund Cupcupin was a real individual, but there's just no way he has worked on all those music videos. My theory is that someone with a lot of time to waste decided to have some fun and just added as many high profile videos to Cupcupin's page. Very likely Mr. Cupcupin isn't even aware of this. It would be interesting if someone could reach out to him to see if this issue can be clarified and resolved.

7 Messages

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134 Points

26 days ago

I recently came across an entry for a top music video which someone I know worked on and they were adamant the Director of Photography listed by imdb was not the actual DP on the shoot! When I looked at this DP's imdb entry I found nearly 500 music video entries of some of the top music videos off all time including Michael Jackson's "Bad" (which was actually shot by Michael Chapman!), "Every Breath You Take" by the Police (actually shot by Daniel Pearl!) and many many more going all the way back to John Lennon's 1971 "Imagine" video (which was actually shot by Nic Knowland!). Now I may be wrong, maybe there really is a DP called "Edmund Cupcupin" who I've never heard of, who somehow shot many of the leading music videos of the 20th & 21st century for artists like Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Queen, Michael Jackson, George Michael, Whitney Houston, Madonna, Bon Jovi, Celine Dion, Mariah Carey & Westlife etc etc, but I seriously doubt it. I even researched who actually shot some of these music videos and you hear a lot of familiar names like Michael Chapman, Daniel Pearl, Nic Knowland etc, but never is the name Edmund Cupcupin mentioned! Am I going mad? How is someone able to falsely list themselves as a DP on hundreds of the greatest music videos of all time without imdb running any sort of check on that? Even worse when I have flagged up several examples of these false claims directly with imdb, the corrections have been rejected despite the fact I included detailed links mentioning the actual DP's who shot these videos. This has really made me question the integrity of imdb now, it really is a bit of a joke imho... Note: This comment was created from a merged conversation Link : https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/fake-entries-on-a-massive-scale/684b6e07a9208e3b5d3b183b Title : Fake entries on a massive scale!

Employee

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3.1K Messages

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31.5K Points

Hello davecw Can you help us posting the 18-digits submission reference number in order to take a look for you? You can find the submission reference number number in your Contribution History page: https://help.imdb.com/article/contribution/contribution-information/contribution-history/G2BYV38VYPXM5L4F?ref_=helpart_nav_10#

7 Messages

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134 Points

Hi Fran, Here are a few: 250519-214834-359000 250519-222131-805000 250519-223541-051000 250519-214843-170000 250519-214824-172000