Western Genre vandalism

Phil, meet bradley_kent https://community-imdb.sprinklr.com/conversations/data-issues-policy-discussions/consternating-contradictions-when-it-comes-to-imdbs-acceptance-or-rejection-of-other-genres-for-western-titles/63dfc9466cf9c9747c4d4a77

Yes, I am the “guilty” person, but, however “sure” you may be, I have never put fake stunt credits on any film, Western or otherwise. Westerns from the 1930s and 1940 and 1950s were NOT just intended for children. (If so, they should probably have the Family genre.). As a child in the late 1940s and 1950s, I took Westerns very seriously, as did many "adults." The guideline may say "the entire series,” BUT there is the option for reporting an episode that is an exception with a keyword, i.e. “comedy-episode,” “musical-episode,” etc. There is also the option of using the “comic-relief” keyword. So, it is NOT the entire series, BUT the majority of episodes that determines genres at the series level. Many series, Westerns and otherwise, have episodes that are exceptions. There is also the reality that SOME series need BOTH Drama and Comedy as genres. It is not always an “either/or” situation. “the entire series” wording may need adjustment in the guidelines. Many b-westerns have “singing cowboys,” like Roy Rogers and Gene Autry, and most (but not all) of those films need the Music genre since they contain “significant music-related elements while not actually being a musical.” (Look to the soundtrack information as a determinant.). And, yes, there are some titles that are BOTH Westerns AND Musicals. As in my post cited above, Drama and Comedy are super genres, well established since the ancient Greeks, and could probably be applied to EVERY narrative title. Also, If reporting the reality, there are probably very few narrative titles that should have just one genre. How the West Was Won is NOT just a Western, but ALSO a Drama, a Romance and a War, but these genres are declined. Likewise, Dark Command is NOT just a Western, but ALSO a Drama, a Romance and a War, but these genres are also declined. (Just recently saw Dark Command, by the way. And, although Roy Rogers is in Dark Command, it should NOT have Music as a genre because Roy does not sing even one song.). The “purity” and “exclusivity” of genres are probably not representative of the facts. With my earlier post, I am looking for clarification in the genre and subgenre guidelines. (Apparently, to be a "b-western," all one needs is a low budget!). There is continuous inconsistency. Is The Sons of Katie Elder NOT a Drama as well as a Western? Is Cat Ballou NOT a Comedy as well as a Western? (Cat Balllou may even need Music as a genre because of the Nat King Cole-Studdy Kaye troubadours.) To put it simply, I am looking to the staff for genre and subgenre clarifications, and for some consistency in determining whether a genre is accepted OR declined. Now, a genre or subgenre submission may be rejected one time, and then, upon resubmission, be accepted the next time. Guess it depends on who is processing a submission.

Guess I am “the guy.” “singing-cowboy” appears as a keyword on most Western titles that have Music as a genre. A keyword is just different from a genre. I go to the soundtrack listings, and, if a title has at least three songs, and is NOT a Musical, it seems that it needs Music as a genre. But, Western can have more than three songs and still not be a Musical. It seems necessary to distinguish between whether a Western is a Drama, or Comedy, or Both. They are just different kinds of titles. Gunsmoke is a Western Drama; Pistols ’n Petticoats is a Western Comedy. Re TV series, the guideline problem is “the entire series” rather than the accurate “the majority of the episodes.” Genres for a specific episodes may diverge from genres for the majority of the episodes. The “musical-episode” keyword is attached to 84 titles; the “drama-episode" keyword is attached to 58 titles; the “western-episode” keyword is attached to 34 titles; etc. When I Love Lucy did its famous takeoff on Brigadoon, it has Comedy as a genre at the series level, BUT “musical-episode" at the episode level. Perhaps Star Trek SHOULD have Drama as a genre at the series level since that represents the majority of the episodes. But, there may be episodes that diverge from that general genre, and those should have the applicable “genre-episode” keyword. Genres --and keywords -- should represent what is actually and factually before our eyes and ears. And, they should be as objective as possible, and not what you or I may personally and subjectively prefer or desire.

@Bethanny Here's the insanity of what's going on. Beyond more tv shows now being added as dramas The Gene Autry Show and The Roy Rogers Show had music down as a genre which was recently added. To give a bit of history, Gene Autry was an extremely smart businessman. He knew television was the wave of the future and wanted to get a product that he could syndicate with his name on it. So he created The Gene Autry Show with him in different western settings each episode but he usually did maybe a 20 second song in each episode but usually that's about it but somebody thinks it's a "music" genre. Roy Rogers followed suit but he hardly sang in his show at all but somebody is just blindly putting this stuff. If you ever really want to look at the poster child for genre issues. Look at a show like O. Henry's Playhouse. There are probably 10 or 12 episodes that are legitimately western but can't be marked as such. But I harken back to years ago somebody on the message board tried to put The Sheepman down as a comedy. There was nothing comical about it. A guy brings sheep to town, the cattleman don't like it (typical western storyline) and they kill several of his hands. etc. Somebody was adamant it was a comedy and everybody else knew it wasn't. He made a post on the board telling people "stop deleting comedy as a genre" and people said "Why is it a comedy there's no laughter or anything" the guy said "Well haven't you ever heard of a dark comedy." Which was one of the strangest things I've seen. Anything that is "subjective" implies that common sense is to be used by the person viewing it and sadly a lot of people don't do that. But if you look at a comedy definition on IMDb's guidelines it says "The subgenre keyword "dramedy-drama" can also be used to categorize titles with comedic undertones that qualify for the Drama genre but not necessarily the Comedy genre. " so in the terms of westerns. you can create something like this but everything has conflict or drama. That's why people go and see the movies. Phil

Roy Rogers and Gene Autry were the leading “singing cowboys,” unlike William Boyd/Hoppalong Cassidy, who never sang. Looking at the soundtrack credits, their films almost always contain two or more songs. While the TV series had less music, it was still a major part of their persona and the show’s content. (As a kid in the early fifties, I watched both, and often sang along!). The Music genre is for titles that “contain significant music-related elements while not actually being a musical.” The Musical genre is “not to be added for titles that are simply music-related or have music performances in them.” Most (but not all) of the Rogers/Autry titles have music performances in them. (Again, the soundtrack credits, as well as actual viewing, tell the story.) As to Drama as a genre for these titles, both Autry and Rogers were very serious in their shows and films, which always dealt with serious issues. Look at what Wikipedia says of The Roy Rogers Show: "As with many Western films of the 1930s–1950s, the Roy Rogers Show featured cowboys and cowgirls riding horses and carrying six-shooters, but unlike traditional westerns, the series had a contemporary setting with automobiles, telephones, and electric lighting. No attempt was made in the scripts to explain or justify this strange amalgamation of 19th-century characters with 20th-century technology. Typical episodes followed the stars as they rescued the weak and helpless from the clutches of dishonest lawmen, con artists, bank robbers, claim jumpers, rustlers, and other "bad guys". In addition to traditional Western plot themes such as cattle rustling and bank robberies, the program featured more contemporary topics, including gun safety and conservation of natural resources. "Many of the shows expressed a moral, and several preached a Christian message."[3]" As I have often stated, perhaps every narrative title should be classified as a Drama or a Comedy of both. Drama and Comedy are “super genres,’ stemming back the Ancient Greeks. “dramedy-drama” seems like an extremely subjective and poorly defined subgenre. We are told to avoid genre combinations as keywords, and, instead, post them as separate genres: Musical and Comedy as genres instead of “musical-comedy,’ Drama and Romance as genres instead of “romantic-drama,” etc.. Isn’t “comic-relief” a better keyword if Comedy can’t be justified as a genre? (Smiley Burnette would know for sure!) As for O.Henry’s Playhouse, that is an anthology series, which need special treatment. The different genre within an anthology series can be posted as genres at the series level BUT the individual episode may need a keyword to designate the genre of that particular episode, i.e., “comedy-episode,” “music-episode.” “sci-fi-episode,” etc. The genre list for an anthology series can include (but not always) many different genres. As to Sheepman, I totally agree that its s NOT a Comedy. (Saw it again recently on TCM.) I have been trying to add Drama as a genre for that title for some time. It gets accoted, then disappears. Upon resubmission, Drama gets accepted again, only to disappear, again. Sometimes, the resubmission is just declined. I don’t know what is going on with this title????? Finally, the Ancients told us that conflict is needed for BOTH Drama and Comedy, although some sure try to challenge that, too -- and some sure come close to succeeding.

Here’s my most recently “declined” attempt for “The Sheepman”: 230508-215029-780000 Track Contribution 2023-05-08 21:50:29 The Sheepman (1958) Genres - 1 item added

This is NOT “vandalism,” but an attempt to help IMDb report the facts. Drama is being accepted as a genre for many perhaps lesser known Western Drama TV series, but NOT for the perhaps best known (and often Drama Emmy award winners and nominees) like: 250530-033503-487000 Track Contribution 2025-05-30 03:35:03 "Bonanza" (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250529-230256-628000 Track Contribution 2025-05-29 23:02:56 "Gunsmoke" (1955) Genres - 1 item added 250529-230035-131000 Track Contribution 2025-05-29 23:00:35 "Death Valley Days" (1952) Genres - 1 item added 250530-061253-409000 Track Contribution 2025-05-30 06:12:53 "The Virginian" (1962) 250517-183202-431000 Track Contribution 2025-05-17 18:32:02 "Cheyenne" (1955) Genres - 1 item added 250517-183125-298000 Track Contribution 2025-05-17 18:31:25 "Laramie" (1959) Genres - 1 item added 250517-182758-215000 Track Contribution 2025-05-17 18:27:58 "The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp" (1955) Genres - 1 item added 250517-182644-477000 Track Contribution 2025-05-17 18:26:44 "Daniel Boone" (1964) Genres - 1 item added 50517-045754-678000 Track Contribution 2025-05-17 04:57:54 "The Rifleman" (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250515-040532-046000 Track Contribution 2025-05-15 04:05:32 "Rawhide" (1959) Genres - 1 item added 50523-223516-752000 Track Contribution 2025-05-23 22:35:16 "Colt .45" (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250523-223434-624000 Track Contribution 2025-05-23 22:34:34 "Have Gun - Will Travel" (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250520-020913-536000 Track Contribution 2025-05-20 02:09:13 "Maverick" (1957) Genres - 1 item added 250520-020747-778000 Track Contribution 2025-05-19 23:43:05 "Wanted: Dead or Alive" (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250519-224122-459000 Track Contribution 2025-05-19 22:41:22 "Cimarron City" (1958) Genres - 1 item added 250610-170959-816000 Track Contribution 2025-06-10 17:09:59 "Wagon Train" (1957) Genres - 1 item added The majority of Western Drama TV series DO have Drama as a genre. Why not these? (Inconsistency and illogic?) P.S. As a kid fan of westerns in the 1940s and 1950s, many Westerns were taken very seriously. Don’t devaluate them for being something that they are not.