Poll Suggestion: The Infamous Swastika Symbol in Asian Movies

To the Western world, the swastika generally represents mass genocide and hate and it was transformed into one of the most offensive symbols of the 20th century.

However, long before the symbol was made synonymous with the terrors of Nazism, the swastika was, and still is, an auspicious symbol widely used to invite good fortune in many Asian countries.

Which IMAGE portraying the swastika — as a religious symbol of well-being, prosperity, success and luck — is the most interesting one?

For an uncropped view of the images see the slides here.

Source: What Does the Swastika Symbol in India Represent?

https://www.imdb.com/list/ls088481049/

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urbanemovies

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2 years ago

@mariojacobs ,

I applaud the effort and think you understand part of the problem. But, I don't think you have all the facts and the introduction as written is doing more harm than good. You need to stop calling the Nazi symbol a swastika, it is not a swastika. Obviously, it is common misunderstanding, but continuing to call it that is the root of the problem and actually is very unknowingly racist. Aside from the introduction, the title "The Infamous Swastika Symbol in Asian Movies" is even more problematic. The title for the post below would be far better, "Hakenkreuz, NOT Swastika". I think after reading the notes below you will understand why.

FYI, This educational documentary is available on YouTube.

FYC,

Most citizens of the western world mistakenly call the Hooked Cross or Deutsches Hakenkreuz, a symbol of the Nazi Party and the German Third Reich from 1933 to 1945, a Swastika. Hilter's symbolic choice of the hooked cross was rooted in his desire to unite and promote the Aryan race with a symbol that dated back to the Germanic Iron Age and was prevalent in communities throughout Europe.

This misnomer resulted from a mistranslation of 'Mein Kampf' into English that happened ninety years ago, when Hitler used the German word hakenkreuz in the book, but instead of the literal translation of hooked cross, the translator used the Sanskrit word swastika instead. The swastika (卐 or 卍) is in reality an ancient religious and cultural symbol used in various cultures around the globe. The strongest association of the true swastika is as a symbol of divinity and spirituality in Indian religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism. The misappropriation of the word has done untold harm and it is important that we start using the correct term and educate others to end the ongoing harm caused by the Nazis.

Which of these images portraying the swastika as a religious symbol of well-being, prosperity, success and luck is the most interesting one?

(edited)

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mariojacobs

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@urbanemovies

>he title for the post below would be far better, "Hakenkreuz, NOT Swastika".

Thank you. Done.

To be honest, apart from the 4 small points, I visually see NO difference between the 2 symbols...

You yourself used the term swastika in the question.

I am seriously thinking of removing the 2nd paragragh to keep the text shorter.

I vaguely recall a movie I watched set in Tibet where there were hundreds of swastikas painted in the outside white wall of a house in the middle of the city. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the movie, I can't find the image on IMDb photo galleries. It was a film about the Dalai Lama.

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2 years ago

urbanemovies

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@mariojacobs,

Thanks for making the changes. To be clear, I use the term swastika to refer to the actual Eastern swastika, not the misnomer Western hakenkreuz. I think it is important to use the term correctly in the effort to reclaim it. Your comment makes me think you miss the point, or I needed to expand the question to be clearer, or that the introduction should be longer, that calling the Nazi cross a swastika is an offense to Indians around the world that has been perpetrated for over ninety years. It is time to help them reclaim this part of their cultural heritage.

Maybe the question should be expanded to clarify this very confusing difference and reinforce that the symbols are different.

Which of these images portraying the Eastern swastika, not the Western hakenkreuz as a religious symbol of well-being, prosperity, success and luck is the most interesting one?

I still think the title is an issue. So titling a poll "The Infamous Swastika Symbol in Asian Movies" was unintentionally offensive. As well as, titling it "The Infamous Hakenkreuz Symbol in Asian Movies" is misinformed, as I can't think of a single depiction of the infamous hakenkreuz symbol in an asian movie.

They are not the same symbol and two symbols have different names, one is a Western cross variant, the other is an Eastern cross variant, using the two terms interchangeably is a problem.

Here is another similar ancient Western Christain symbol that has Greek origins, but interestingly nobody is calling it a Swastika.

Plus, here are some pre-Hitler German uses of the western Christian cross Deutsches Hakenkreuz used as an völkisch (German ethno-nationalist) symbol.

Plus, these other western Christian crosses variants may look familiar from their use during the Nazi reign or even from German WWI usage.

I cite them to support the claim that the Nazi symbols were derived from these and that the Nazi use of the symbol was related to the Western religious cross, not the Eastern religious cross. My point is the Nazi symbol had western origins, not eastern origins. So, I think your polls theme should reinforce this, as well as, it is what makes this poll interesting.

Plus, it setups the answer pool options as true Eastern Swastika symbols, not Western Hakenkreuz symbols. Hitler who design the Nazi symbol himself declared himself early in his reign "Not a Catholic, but a German Christain". So, you can clearly see the inspiration for the Hakenkreuz was as an völkisch (German ethno-nationalist) symbol that had Western religious origins. Plus, I think an important distinction about the Hitler-designed Nazi cross is that it is rotated an eighth turn that differs from the Eastern left facing swastikas pictured in your answer pool options.

You can see from the table that there are a lot of cross variants (although most graphs have been sanitized of the hooked cross variant or anything that looks like it, like the fylfot cross and its mirror image, the gammadion cross).

I think the text length is right, as it hard to make all the points that need to be made clearly in an abbreviated form. I think removing anything prevents the reader from really understanding this confusing issue. But, if you can communicate all the points, in a shorter version, do so. Also, I think it is hard to change something so ingrained in people without out pre-empting thier questions in advance too. I actual was surprised I was able to do it at the current length without it being longer than it is.

(edited)

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2 years ago

urbanemovies

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@mariojacobs,

To be honest, apart from the 4 small points, I visually see NO difference between the 2 symbols...

I think an important distinction about the Hitler-designed Nazi cross is that it is rotated an eighth turn and is only left facing. That differs significantly from the Eastern left facing swastikas and right facing swastikas pictured in your answer pool options that are always upright. The two Eastern swastikas (卐 or 卍) have separate associations from the eighth turned hooked cross Nazi Hakenkreuz symbol and each is visually very different, although I get they seem similar.

(edited)

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2 years ago

mariojacobs

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@urbanemovies

I understand what you are trying to say, this is really a very difficult subject.

> I think it is hard to change something so ingrained in people

If ever possible in the Western world, it will take more thousand years to clear this. Seriously, 1000 years at least.

>but interestingly nobody is calling it a Swastika.

The symbol is called in Portuguese cruz gamada and in French croix gammee.

I am still not convinced, VISUALLY for me it is the same symbol, you can turn/rotate a triangle 45, 90, 180 degrees and it is still a triangle. You can mirror/flip it right or left, it is IMHO the same triangle/symbol.

> here are some pre-Hitler German uses of the western Christian cross Deutsches Hakenkreuz

The Balkenkreuz used by the Wehrmacht was used in WW1. These crosses are indeed very old.

As far as I know the origin of all of this is rooted in Austria before 1900. Hitler and the nazis invented nothing, they adopted crazy ideas already floating around for decades. I remember watching a documentary about Guido von List and his eccentric ideas. Even the concept of a sun made of ice!

>My point is the Nazi symbol had western origins, not eastern origins.

1938–1939 German expedition to Tibet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938%E2%80%931939_German_expedition_to_Tibet

https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-studies/history-culture/shambhala/the-nazi-connection-with-shambhala-and-tibet

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2 years ago

mariojacobs

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2 months ago

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Poll Suggestion: The Infamous Swastika Symbol in Asian Movies

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